Numis Network Review update: Some Numis Network marketers are using videos featuring Rich Dad author Robert Kiyosaki recommending that people purchase silver and gold, as a hedge against inflation and an investment.
But don’t be misled, Mr. Kiyosaki NEVER recommends that you purchase graded numismatic collectible coins.
His gold and silver advisor Michael Maloney, who wrote Rich Dad’s Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver, advises that you purchase bullion bars and coins, NOT graded numismatic collectible coins.
In the book he states “I think that anyone buying ‘brand new collectibles’ is being taken for a ride“ and advises to “Steer clear and don’t buy into gold and silver network marketing plans“.
The Numis Network is a network marketing company that markets graded silver and gold collectible coins.
I wouldn’t have bothered to write this review, but when I read a comment on a Numis marketers site, where a mom said that she is going to buy these coins for her children’s education fund, I knew that I had to write the review, despite the criticism that I knew it would attract.
I’ve invested tens of thousands of dollars silver and gold eagle coins.
In fact I have 7 Silver Eagle coins on my desk in front of me, to remind me to work hard towards my goals. I also have graded St. Gaudens Double Eagle $20 gold coins and Morgan silver dollars.
I believe that people SHOULD INVEST in Silver Eagles to potentially profit as metal prices rise, but more importantly, for protection as the dollar is being devalued so much that it could eventually fail.
What I don’t believe in is PAYING TOO MUCH for your investments.
Which brings up the first point…
Numis Network Says They Are a ‘Collectible’ Coin Company, Not An ‘Investment’ Coin Company
They do this so that they don’t get in trouble with the FTC.
The problem is that when you watch the Numis company video, it shows a 2009 MS-70 Silver Eagle (SE) coin for $125 and then shows a 1997 MS-70 SE coin for $500, which implies to the viewer that if they buy SE coins now, they will be worth much more in 10 years. That implies that the coin is an investment, not just a collectible.
When they say “By purchasing and accumulating graded, silver and gold numismatic coins, you too can Create Wealth, Collect Wealth, and Preserve Wealth“, that implies that it’s an investment.
When marketers say “Our products are Tangible ASSETS. (Historically, these have grown in value over the years.)“, that’s investment advice.
Many marketers are positioning the coins as investments, which will most likely get them and Numis in trouble, much like a nutritional company marketer making medical claims.
So Is the Numis Network ANACS MS-70 Silver Eagle Worth $100?
Well, you can find them on HSN, eBay and online coin dealers selling for $100 or more.
But that’s because there’s a huge market for selling silver and gold coins to people who don’t understand the true value of coins.
The bottom line is this… can you purchase an ANACS MS70 Silver Eagle from Numis for $100 wholesale (retail is $125) and then turn around and sell it at your local coin dealer for anywhere near $100? Of course not, because you paid a $70 markup on the product.
Don’t believe me? Read the comment from a former Numis marketer who was offered only $30 from his coin dealer.
So Is the Numis Network ANACS MS-70 Silver Eagle A Good Investment?
Well, according to Robert Kiyosaki and his silver and gold adviser Michael Maloney, NO.
In the book “Rich Dad’s Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver” he states “I think that anyone buying ‘brand new collectibles’ is being taken for a ride“ and advises to “Steer clear and don’t buy into gold and silver network marketing plans“.
Read the Rich Dad book “The Conspiracy of the Rich” and you will see how the dollar is being devalued and will ultimately fail, as other countries stop buying the U.S.’s debt.
When that happens silver and gold will be our currency again. And people won’t care if your modern coin is graded or not, it just won’t matter. It will be worth the spot price of the metal content.
I’ll take bullion any day.”
What Do Silver And Gold Experts Say About The Grading Of Modern Coins?
Consider this advice from www.golddealer.com
“Avoid high premium modern so-called “investment” coins unless you don’t like your money. The recent move into “certified bullion coins” is a prime example. Certification only matters if the condition of the coin is important.
Since all bullion coins trade for close to their metal content the notion that certification adds something to the value of the coin is nonsense. If you are buying bullion coins pay for weight, there is no rare coin value to consider and the resultant populations are meaningless.“
And this advice from CMI Gold & Silver Inc.
“The grading services (PCGS, NGC AND ANACS) are part and parcel to the promotion of modern gold bullion coins, which has become a problem not so much for coin collectors but new investors who, wanting only to invest in gold coins, sadly fall victims to telemarketer stories. By starting coin grading they helped stamp out one unscrupulous practice but are implicit in another.
Because slabbed coins are so widely received, the slabbing of modern coins lends validity to them that they do not deserve, and that is a shame. The services are tremendous assets to coin collecting. They should have never started grading modern bullion coins.“
So is there a Numis Network scam?
Hopefully the above information has helped you become more informed about the product and business, so that you can decide for yourself.
If you only learn about silver and gold coins from Numis, then you’re not getting the whole story.
Do your own research…
- To learn more about silver and gold coins, you can link to www.golddealer.com
to read the Silver and Gold Investing Questions and Answers.
Keep learning and growing!
David
p.s. If you know people who are considering joining Numis Network, they definitely need to read this review to have a true understanding of what they are buying and representing, so do them a favor and use the tools below to share this blog post.
What Does David Wood Say About Numis Network? His 2/17/10 comment on this Numis Network Review reads:
“Hi Dave!
Ha ha, I just read through this discussion with my good buddy Mike, and I have to say it’s funny watching the two of you go back and forth.
I don’t know if numis coins are worth it or not for the average person, and I don’t know anything about coins, but there’s pretty much no way you could convince me to pay $99 for $17 of silver.
However, that’s just me, so numis reps can keep recruiting the universe for all I care.
A couple of thoughts, though. Of course, I’m biased away from companies like Numis, so maybe my thoughts aren’t actually ‘fair’, but one thing I wanted to mention is that Numis doesn’t pay 50% of sales, they pay 50% of ‘business volume’ or ‘bv’ which is about 60% of a m70 silver eagle.
So they actually pay about 30% of wholesale sales through the binary, which isn’t a lot. It’s less than old school companies pay most of the time.
Personally, it’s just not my thing, but there’s probably at least some good money for the top leaders from the coded bonus – you just would have to have a zillion people involved to make any serious residuals.
But then again – who am I?
-dave”
UPDATE: One month after Dave Wood posted the above comment, his primary MLM company iLearningGlobal shut down their business, so Dave responded by immediately joining Numis Network. Apparently losing his iLG income changed his perspective.
His 3/17/10 comment on this Numis Network Review reads:
“Ha ha – what you say can always come back to bite you.
And it’s not money that changed my perspective – I got offered $1.57 million to run with a juice company, and turned it down because it’s NOT all about money.
The reality is (and maybe you could update your snipped on me above to include my statement here) is that 2 days before I joined Numis after iLearningGlobal went down, I had a conference call with the leaders of Numis because there was some hard feelings and a general spirit of competition.
I decided to take down my Numis review and look at it from an open perspective, and the other leaders in Numis took down all of their negative ‘juice’ videos too. When I looked at Numis from an open, non-biased perspective, I had to admit that what they were doing was impressive as hell and that I was wrong on some things.
Now I still wasn’t going to join it, because obviously I loved iLearningGlobal, but when the company closed – I had a choice, I could wait and think about it as my group scattered in a thousand directions, (which is exactly what happened to everyone who didn’t act quickly, my upline included), OR, I could join the team that I work with every day, is growing, and quite frankly, when I opened myself against the grain of my previous bias – I like the company, the product is cool, the leadership rocks, and I think it was the best place to bring my team.
- so far, I’ve been right. Already my ilearningglobal team is making more money here, people are having fun, the systems here are better, and I’m glad I didn’t let my ego get in the way.
Hope that helps there buddy – you’re welcome to call me and talk to me about this, too.
-dave”
March 19th, 2010 at 3:22 am
Hey David, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I invest hundreds of dollars a month on nutritional products, because I enjoy a high quality of life and it's an investment in my better future.
You hit on my point. I feel strongly that people need to invest in silver bullion coins or bars. Read Robert Kiyosaki's Conspiracy of the Rich book. The dollar is being devalued and soon the world will not buy the U.S.'s debt anymore, which means the end of the dollar.
When that happens silver and gold will be our currency again. And people won't care if your modern coin is graded or not, it just won't matter. It will be worth the spot price of the metal content.
So I'll take my $20 silver eagle coins over their $100 graded coin any day. And I'm in great company because Mike Dillard and Robert Kiyosaki agree with me.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:36 am
Ok….When the dollar flops I'd much rather have “silver content” than a bunch of empty juice bottles. You also keep pointing out selling these collectible coins to a “Dealer” for a loss…that is the worse thing any collector could ever do. All collectors know dealers can not afford to pay market value for goods they have to resale to cover all their overhead and still make a profit. You actually show that after the dealer offered $30… he (Zack) declined….. and sold it himself on ebay for $110. You should stop driving that point home and try to hold down some of your other points to maintain credibility. You obviously have a slanted view and will overlook the obvious if it's not your favor….our your juice company's favor. Thanks for the good exchanges and I look forward to your reply.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
David, you are spot on with your assessments. I have been involved with MLM for over 15 years and have had success in it but when I ran across Numis I was skeptical at 1st but my skepticism has been validated reading your article. You see, my sister is a big rare coin collector and regularly buys PCGS and NGS coins. I even bought a $20 St. Gaudens 6 years ago for about $500 and sold it years later (last year) for $2000…so I know the power of rare numismatic coins.
Hopefully these Numis Network folks will do their homework and understand what you are talking about with the ridiculous mark-up Numis has on their coins.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Hi Ralph, thanks for your input. I love the St. Gauden's gold coins. They are beautiful. And it's amazing to have one in your hand and know that it's worth thousands of dollars.
Investing in graded Semi-Numismatic coins like the gold St. Gauden's and silver Morgans can really pay off, because there is a limited quantity of them that are in great condition.
David
March 28th, 2010 at 10:42 am
I am not in Numis, but i have friends in the company. However, finding this thread highly interesting i must add this point. To repeatedly defend your point of view based on what a dealer will pay for a coin shows a high level of ignorance on your part.
Thats like saying every car dealership in the world is a sham/scam business because when people buy new cars, a dealer will only “pay x amount” for that car. The value of the house, the car, or the coin…is what any ONE other person will pay for it…perioid! Not what the ford dealership down the road will pay for it.
You pretty much strike me as a ridiculously ignorant and foolish person for repeatedly stating that what a coin dealer will pay for a coin has ANYTHING to do with its value! Actually, it does…it proves THE WHOLESALE VALUE!!!! They will turn around and sell it for $100-$150….the REAL RETAIL VALUE!
Again, I know ZERO about these coins or Numis Network. Ive just done minimal reviewing of numismatic coins since i know 2 people in Numis Network.
Again, why do you repeatedly state that what a coin dealer will pay for a coin has ANYTHING to do with its value?
When you sell your house, are you going to sell it to a REAL ESTATE INVESTOR?
I didnt think so!!!!
Unreal……..
March 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Hey moron! The dollar IS NOT going to fail!!!! You cant attack Numis or any graded coin company (from what ive learned so far) based on the dollar collapsing…Then , you would need to attack ANY retail product that doesnt assure a safety net in times of crisis/ dollar crashing—movie tickets, clothes, restaurants, and on and on and on….Based on that logic….we should all just spend the nare minimum..and invest 80-90% of whats left in gold, silver, guns, ammo, and whiskey (great trade value when the world crashes!!!)….Besides, IF the dollar crashes, looks like Numis has the best mlm..if it does…..Better to have a bunch of $30 coins…….if you absolutely HAD TO dump them…than anything else ive seen in mlm…..
Again, i have no intention of joining Numis…but everything you say…youre ignorance in not understanding the REAL VALUE of any product, makes me actually start considering Numis!!!
The value of ANY PRODUCT will ALWAYS be what another person or group of people will pay for it!!!!
I wouldnt give $5 for a million boxes of cigarettes…they have no value to me…and i wouldnty want to sell them to others….BUT to millions of other people….idiot smokers and greedy business people who only want to profit from those boxes of cigarettes, a million boxes would be worth $3 million+……….not worth $5 to me…but worth $3 million plus to others…..the REAL market value is what its worth at its highest point…NOT at its LOWEST POINT!!!!!!!]
Do you not get that?????
I seriously have had no desire to join Numis, but youre repeated ignorant statements of value/ selling price to a dealer…..who wants to profit….has me looking at Numis….all over the past hour!!!!!!!
Why? Because the REAL VALUE of ANY PRODUCT…..ANY PRODUCT…is what ANY ONE other person will pay for it!!!!
..Unreal…..
March 28th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
You're a real class act Nick. Calling me a moron, when your words show how ignorant you are about the true value of gold, silver and the dollar.
Let's see… high unemployment… failing businesses and banks… a new wave of adjustable mortgage resets are due over the next 2 years which could dwarf the mortgage crisis we just when through… the dollar isn't backed by silver or gold anymore… the Fed keeps printing more money, which results in inflation, which devalues our money… our country keeps spending trillions of dollars that they don't have and soon other countries will stop buying our debt.
I guess my mentors Robert Kiyosaki and Mike Dillard must both be wrong about the future of the dollar, and about their recommendation to invest in bullion, not graded modern silver coins.
So you keep thinking happy thoughts and it will all work out fine.
March 28th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
You said “I know ZERO about these coins or Numis Network. Ive just done minimal reviewing of numismatic coins” and then you call me a “a ridiculously ignorant and foolish person”.
Your own words condemn you Nick, so I really have nothing to add. Good luck!
March 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Numis Network introduces us to the value of money and the benefits of collecting real assets …this education for me is the most important reason to join the business.
Some of you argue the merits of collecting Numismatic coins rather than gold & bullion…
I find this very exciting…frankly the coins are very valuable…we get them at an awesome price…I am collecting gold & silver assets…I am learning about money and the value of gold and silver…I am also investing in gold mining stocks…buying bullion and becoming a precious metals investor…all thanks to the knowledge I have gained since joining Numis…
those of you that knock Numis and call it a scam must be crazy…
March 29th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
That's great that you're learning about money and the value of gold and silver. I would recommend that everyone read Robert Kiyosaki's “Conspiracy of the Rich” book to learn more about the declining value of the dollar, and the huge potential in silver bullion.
It's interesting that you and others skip over the statements by Rich Dad author Robert Kiyosaki, his silver and gold adviser Michael Maloney, and Magnetic Sponsoring author Mike Dillard, who clearly recommend buying only bullion, not graded coins.
In the book “Rich Dad's Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver” he states “I think that anyone buying ‘brand new collectibles’ is being taken for a ride“ and advises to “Steer clear and don’t buy into gold and silver network marketing plans“.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Ha ha – what you say can always come back to bite you.
And it's not money that changed my perspective – I got offered $1.57 million to run with a juice company, and turned it down because it's NOT all about money.
The reality is (and maybe you could update your snipped on me above to include my statement here) is that 2 days before I joined Numis after iLearningGlobal went down, I had a conference call with the leaders of Numis because there was some hard feelings and a general spirit of competition.
I decided to take down my Numis review and look at it from an open perspective, and the other leaders in Numis took down all of their negative 'juice' videos too. When I looked at Numis from an open, non-biased perspective, I had to admit that what they were doing was impressive as hell and that I was wrong on some things.
Now I still wasn't going to join it, because obviously I loved iLearningGlobal, but when the company closed – I had a choice, I could wait and think about it as my group scattered in a thousand directions, (which is exactly what happened to everyone who didn't act quickly, my upline included), OR, I could join the team that I work with every day, is growing, and quite frankly, when I opened myself against the grain of my previous bias – I like the company, the product is cool, the leadership rocks, and I think it was the best place to bring my team.
- so far, I've been right. Already my ilearningglobal team is making more money here, people are having fun, the systems here are better, and I'm glad I didn't let my ego get in the way.
Hope that helps there buddy – you're welcome to call me and talk to me about this, too.
-dave
801-542-9350
March 29th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
Hey Dave, Obviously I had the same decision to make when iLearningGlobal closed. But I knew that iLG was failing, so I wasn't shocked by their decision.
iLG founder John McLelland tried to sponsor me into NuSkin, but John has no integrity with me anymore, so that wasn't an option.
I had people try to sponsor me into Numis, but my Numis Network Review shows my convictions, so Numis wasn't an option for me either.
As for your comments, people can read your before and after stories, and decide for themselves.
Numis could get in trouble from marketers promoting the coins as 'investments', so be sure to warn your team to market them as 'collectible coins'.
David
March 30th, 2010 at 3:27 am
I invest in gold & silver ALL OF IT..coins, bullion gold stocks…what you got? I love gold and i know there is over a billion people on the planet that agree with me…but that is just me…my thoughts on the subject…I am forever grateful to Robert Kiyosaki and Mike Dillard for the knowledge I have gotten from them so far…but that does not mean…I have to listen, do and think like they do,…its a free country last time I checked and I am a gold investor…period.
March 30th, 2010 at 3:55 am
I love gold too, especially St. Gaudens gold coins, but if you do your research, you will find that the experts are saying silver has more investment potential than gold. Most gold is recaptured and reused. Silver is being used for electronics and such, and is not being recaptured, so there will be more demand, especially as China's manufacturing keeps growing.
Yes, Robert teaches to invest in assets, which is something that generates income. He purchased silver when it was $4 an ounce and it has appreciated to $17 an ounce. He DOES NOT classify a graded modern coin as an asset.
His gold and silver advisor Michael Maloney, who wrote Rich Dad’s Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver, advises that you purchase bullion bars and coins, NOT graded numismatic collectible coins.
In the book he states “I think that anyone buying ‘brand new collectibles’ is being taken for a ride“ and advises to “Steer clear and don’t buy into gold and silver network marketing plans“.
March 30th, 2010 at 4:03 am
and i disagree with them…numis is growing every day and will continue to grow…only difference is some people will get in early and some will get in later…anyone that is introduced to this industry cannot help but learn the value of collecting coins.
Anyway…I never have to sell the value of our product..its the least of my concerns…it speaks for itself.
I focus on marketing…I am a coin collector and I recruit others and teach them how to do it…just cause some knuckle head that wrote a book a few years ago thinks its a bad idea …really he said network marketing was awesome and he said gold and silver was great…thats all I need to know from him….what I do with that knowledge now is up to me…he is not putting food on my table selling his books.
March 30th, 2010 at 4:32 am
Once again you show your ignorance. Robert Kiyosaki teaches to invest in real estate for Cashflow, not capital gains. He has over 1,400 rental properties and he is still collecting rent to create cashflow, while the renters are paying off his mortgages. And now the market is 'on sale', so he's buying more properties for cashflow.
March 30th, 2010 at 4:41 am
now I am ignorant cause I don't agree with you or Robert Kiyosaki? His ideas are only useful if people put them to work…I have…but just cause he says not to invest in numismatic coins and coin mlms are bad…I have to listen to him….this is a guy that changes $5000 per person to promote his ideas…come on? are you for real?
March 30th, 2010 at 4:51 am
If you understood what he teaches about real estate investing, you wouldn't have said “…really he said real estate was great…is it good now?”
You don't have to agree with Robert, but don't misrepresent what he teaches about investing in real estate or silver.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:03 am
I am not misrepresenting anything but I know plenty of people who listened to rebort's advice and got into real estate and now are filing for bankruptcy and foreclosure…is this not true?
anyway…all I am saying is …people's decision on whether or not to join numis should have nothing to do with what Robert Kiyosaki thinks or says…if he thinks its a bad idea…he is loosing it. Our coins are priced fairly…shop around…people collect coins for all kinds of reasons…no one is twisting anyone arm to join numis…the videos explain everything and clear explains the difference between a bullion coin and a MS70 rated coin…so why make it seem like we are hiding something?
March 30th, 2010 at 5:38 am
Robert teaches that the profit is made “at the time of the sale”, which means that you have to research investments so that you are immediately in profit and you generate cashflow.
Many people tried to make easy money in real estate, because they invested for capital gains (for the value of the home to increase).
Many people overextended themselves, banking on the value of the home to increase, so that they could create equity and cash out. But when the home values decreased, they foreclosed.
And when Numis marketers use Robert Kiyosaki videos to deceptively promote Numis, then it does matter what he thinks and what he is truly recommending, which is bullion. Google “Numis Network Robert Kiyosaki” and you will see all the marketers that are doing this, including the top marketers.
As for the Numis videos, they take advantage of people who don't know better by implying that their new 2010 MS-70 SE will someday be worth $500, just like the 1997 MS-70 SE example in the video.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:59 am
google any network marketing company with robert kiyosaki and you will see people using his name to promote their own programs…again a lot of people are in network marketing today because he said it was a good idea…now which netwrok marketing company I choose to promote…what does that have to do with him?
March 30th, 2010 at 6:12 am
It matters because Numis Network marketers are using Rich Dad videos where he recommends buying silver and gold as a hedge against inflation and as an investment.
They use his videos to IMPLY that he is recommending Numis graded modern coins, but he is not, he is recommending buying bullion.
That is deception and I'm surprised that he hasn't taken legal action.
March 31st, 2010 at 4:56 am
Good straight up stuff!
April 7th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I felt the same way about Numis coins just a few months ago.
I guess I will address the much discussed asset issue first. I am a trained accountant and I can assure anyone reading, that any gold or silver coin is an asset The word “asset” is an accounting term, which is defined as something that provides future economic value. In fact they are non-depreciable assets, which means the value grows over time. Rather than a car, which depreciates (looses value over time). That said, asset doe NOT mean or even imply investment.
The next question is, “Why would I want to pay $100 for a coin that is worth about $20 at the metal spot price?” Honestly, from an accounting perspective it baffles me.
However, I have noticed that because they are collectibles they hold that something special that folks seem to love. In all fairness, I am with Numis now and even I myself go gaga over my coins. For some reason (irrational, but no less valid) I love my collectible coins whereas I have no feelings for my bouillon coins.
So, there is that intangible extra that comes along with numismatic coins. I think everyone is crystal clear that numismatic coins are not an investment, at least they should be clear.
So, why would I, a financial professional be involved with Numis, rather than bouillon?
The answer is simple, bouillon does not have a network marketing opportunity. These days, many folks are in a position where they have nothing left to invest except their time and energy. The common person is not going to see a huge increase in wealth by precious metals investing, even if the price goes up 300%. Admittedly, that would be a nice bump, but you would need a lot of bouillon for it to have a sizable impact. It is the network marketing opportunity that holds the value and the potential payoff. The best part is that it is achievable by the common person.
So, keep investing out of the picture. The Numis representative is a small business person that is in the “work at home” category. When choosing a business, I looked for something that was in demand and marketable. You cannot deny either of those factors when looking at Numis. Face it, this is a powerful trend right now.
I'll also have to agree with Mike's assertion. Juice, vitamins, ect do not really hold a residual value if you get stuck holding a lot of inventory. On the other hand, if, after it all, the only thing you had left was a box of silver and gold coins…I bet you would be pretty happy. I know I would be.
So, in conclusion, Numismatic coins are cool and fun. They are not an investment and yes, according to GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles), they are assets.
But, the bottom line is, Numis is a network marketing opportunity that gives the average person a shot at fulfilling their dreams.
I hope I have added to the conversation,
– Jeremy Reece
“You miss 100% of the shots you never take.”